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{ Friday, February 10, 2006 }





GoogleTalk transcripts not only freaky, but potentially illegal



Michael and I were chatting on GoogleTalk in Gmail. I like having chat integrated into mail, it's very convenient and reduces the # of open windows on mydesktop. But I was expressing my horror that all the email transcripts were being archived by default. 80-90% of all users use defaults, sometimes even more. Which means that I am permitting my interlocutors to store our conversations on Google's servers without my explicit permission. You can change a conversation to "Go off the record" but when would you want any conversation to be, by default, on the record. Google may believe they're fighting the good fight against the government, but as we know, we're under a government that flagrantly disregards the law when it comes to seizing and collecting the communications of its citizens.


This is the default:


gtalk


Google archiving on its servers your chat transcripts by default may even be illegal. Michael pointed out the  California Penal Code 631:


a) Any person who, by means of any machine, instrument, or
contrivance, or in any other manner, intentionally taps, or makes any
unauthorized connection, whether physically, electrically,
acoustically, inductively, or otherwise, with any telegraph or
telephone wire, line, cable, or instrument, including the wire, line,
cable, or instrument of any internal telephonic communication
system, or who willfully and without the consent of all parties to
the communication, or in any unauthorized manner, reads, or attempts
to read, or to learn the contents or meaning of any message, report,
or communication while the same is in transit or passing over any
wire, line, or cable, or is being sent from, or received at any place
within this state; or who uses, or attempts to use, in any manner,
or for any purpose, or to communicate in any way, any information so
obtained, or who aids, agrees with, employs, or conspires with any
person or persons to unlawfully do, or permit, or cause to be done
any of the acts or things mentioned above in this section, is
punishable by a fine not exceeding two thousand five hundred dollars
($2,500), or by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one
year, or by imprisonment in the state prison, or by both a fine and
imprisonment in the county jail or in the state prison.  If the
person has previously been convicted of a violation of this section
or Section 632, 632.5, 632.6, 632.7, or 636, he or she is punishable
by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by
imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or by
imprisonment in the state prison, or by both a fine and imprisonment
in the county jail or in the state prison.



Michael and I were also wondering if this is the default in *desktop* search. I have a mac, so I can't check. Does anybody know?











	LINK 	|  1:49 PM | TB 





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{ COMMENTS }




I can't imagine it's illegal, and even if it was when you wrote the post, they can (like virtually every web service provider, including Flickr via Yahoo's ToS) change the terms and conditions whenever they like.



"Although we may attempt to notify you via your Gmail address when major changes are made, you should visit this page periodically to review the terms. Google may, in its sole discretion, modify or revise these terms and conditions and policies at any time, and you agree to be bound by such modifications or revisions. If you do not accept and abide by this Agreement, you may not use the Gmail service"



The same applies to Google Talk.



Additionally, the first time you actively log in to Gmail after the Talk features have been activated it displays a full screen explaining what it is, and the option to turn off message logging, it's not just buried in the options screen; and again, when you sign in with the enabled version of the proper desktop Talk client it asks you.



I can't imagine that most IM companies _don't_ store all user communication for at least a period of time, say 90 days after transmission.

Phil Wilson | February 10, 2006  3:39 PM



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How could it possibly be more illegal than archiving all your mail?  It says it's illegal "without the consent of all parties to the communication"... seems that if you accept the default (they make you choose when you first get chat) then you're consenting.  Case closed.



The reason they're keeping it is obviously so you can search it.  I like having searchable IM logs, a LOT, but I keep them on my own personal machine.

 | February 10, 2006  3:43 PM



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Huh. I distinctly remember turning the archives ON when I allowed Gtalk into my Gmail. Was that not the case for all users?

kathryn | February 10, 2006  3:57 PM



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Here's another thought.  I may consent to recording my chats but what if I am chatting with you and you don't want your part of the conversation recorded.  Did I get your consent to record what you are chatting to me?  Nope.  And can you tell I am recording it.  No again.  



So, if I am chatting with you maybe it's illegal for me to allow my system (Google or otherwise) to record your part of the conversation, since no one asked you for permission.



Herb Lainchbury | February 10, 2006  4:02 PM



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By the way, AOL also stores all of your AIM convos. It's in the the user agreement.

Hashim | February 10, 2006  4:36 PM



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It's hilarious how every liberal in the Bay Area suddenly becomes a legal expert the instant they perceive an issue they hope they might be able to bash the government with. Grow up please.

ZF | February 10, 2006  4:45 PM



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Posting a comment telling the blogger to grow up...now THAT'S mature.  Guess you're the type of person that LOVES it when the government intercepts your communication.  Must make you feel important.

 | February 10, 2006  6:11 PM



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I definitely had to turn archiving on. In fact, I got asked three times. Once by the GTalk app, once by GMail at home, and once again by GMail at work. Still, they are obviously playing with it, so maybe they turned it on for some people and not for others. They probably quickly realized it was a bad idea to turn it on by default if they tried it.

Dave Adams | February 10, 2006  8:01 PM



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Mine was turned off by default, so I didn't think much about it at the time.



I am still ambivalent on the whole privacy thing.  I think privacy is important, but I do believe that the whole privacy debate is a tad over-rated.

Deepak | February 10, 2006 10:36 PM



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I turned mine off on the splash screen, but I still have to choose "off the record" for each chat session (I guess that's to say I don't want the other person recording it?)

Stewart Butterfield | February 10, 2006 11:23 PM



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1) How does this differ from everyone who records your chats with iChat and then backs them up to .Mac?  Or who copy and pastes from a chat window and then emails then to someone with hotmail?  It's hardly a new threat.



2) Google does MORE than iChat, because you can go off the record with me in GTalk, but in iChat, I can record the entire chat regardless of what you want.



3) I can clearly remember my father not wanting to get a credit card so that the government couldn't track his purchases. Now, of course, he has a credit card, and every Law and Order has the government looking at credit card records.  Convenience sometimes trumps privacy.

Travis | February 11, 2006  1:02 AM



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Do those of you freaking out over the 'privacy' issue really have anything that important to hide? It really is simple - if you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear as any competent lawyer will be able to clear you, and if you are doing things you shouldn't... well, grow up and be a big criminal and deal with it. Get smarter people, not whinier. There are ALWAYS was around these things, as an IT security pro I know this. If you truly want to protect these privacy freedooms you are so despondent about, then get your lazy asses educated on how to protect yourself and quit waiting for someone who is providing a service to take the time to do it for you. It isn't in their interest, it is in yours - so take care of yourself and quit acting like spoiled children!

half-a-brain | February 12, 2006  1:58 PM



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I second kathryn's comment: I was explicitly asked by google just a few days ago if I wanted this feature to be turned on or off:



Maybe those who see this feature enabled or disabled by "default" did agree to something else, where archiving conversations was part of a whole eula-options-"packet"?

g. | February 12, 2006  3:19 PM



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As mentioned, most IM services store chat sessions. I think with recent developments regarding wiretapping and Google China, this issue with GoogleTalk has reached a newsworthy convergence point. It really isn't that new, but it's good to be informed about it.

the patriarch | February 13, 2006  8:32 AM



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So, would you prefer an option to always go off the record? I'm not sure how that would work.



We've been using the Talk-in-Gmail feature for a  long time internally and I've come to rely on searching past chats. I'd never want to go back to the usual IM paradigm, where you have to take an extra step to enable logging.



I presume Google's lawyers scrutinized this part of the app very carefully, so I doubt it's blatantly illegal.

Neil K | February 16, 2006 11:40 AM



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Maybe not blatantly, maybe only flagrantly? ;-)



The way I'm picturing it working is: it works the same way as when you click "Off the record" except permanently, on all conversations. 

Caterina | February 17, 2006  2:52 PM



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If you agree to the google privacy policy you are agreeing to blanket recording of data: "When you use Google services, our servers automatically record information that your browser sends whenever you visit a website. " (from http://www.google.com/privacypolicy.html ) That's pretty broad license...

raul | February 21, 2006  3:10 PM



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Mike Furir 30 | April 26, 2006  8:29 AM



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Sadly, it's true. All my archives have been taken offline so I don't have to spend hours clearing out comment spam with horrifying subject matter. I'm sorry.







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